venture 22 sailboat review

VENTURE 22 Detailed Review

If you are a boat enthusiast looking to get more information on specs, built, make, etc. of different boats, then here is a complete review of VENTURE 22. Built by Macgregor Yacht Corp and designed by Roger MacGregor, the boat was first built in 1968. It has a hull type of Swing Keel and LOA is 6.71. Its sail area/displacement ratio 25.55. Its auxiliary power tank, manufactured by undefined, runs on undefined.

VENTURE 22 has retained its value as a result of superior building, a solid reputation, and a devoted owner base. Read on to find out more about VENTURE 22 and decide if it is a fit for your boating needs.

Boat Information

Boat specifications, sail boat calculation, rig and sail specs, contributions, who designed the venture 22.

VENTURE 22 was designed by Roger MacGregor.

Who builds VENTURE 22?

VENTURE 22 is built by Macgregor Yacht Corp.

When was VENTURE 22 first built?

VENTURE 22 was first built in 1968.

How long is VENTURE 22?

VENTURE 22 is 5.94 m in length.

What is mast height on VENTURE 22?

VENTURE 22 has a mast height of 6.65 m.

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Review of Venture 22

Basic specs., sailing characteristics.

This section covers widely used rules of thumb to describe the sailing characteristics. Please note that even though the calculations are correct, the interpretation of the results might not be valid for extreme boats.

What is Capsize Screening Formula (CSF)?

The capsize screening value for Venture 22 is 2.50, indicating that this boat would not be accepted to participate in ocean races.

What is Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed?

The theoretical maximal speed of a displacement boat of this length is 5.9 knots. The term "Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed" is widely used even though a boat can sail faster. The term shall be interpreted as above the theoretical speed a great additional power is necessary for a small gain in speed.

The immersion rate is defined as the weight required to sink the boat a certain level. The immersion rate for Venture 22 is about 88 kg/cm, alternatively 496 lbs/inch. Meaning: if you load 88 kg cargo on the boat then it will sink 1 cm. Alternatively, if you load 496 lbs cargo on the boat it will sink 1 inch.

Sailing statistics

This section is statistical comparison with similar boats of the same category. The basis of the following statistical computations is our unique database with more than 26,000 different boat types and 350,000 data points.

What is Motion Comfort Ratio (MCR)?

What is L/B (Length Beam Ratio)?

What is Displacement Length Ratio?

What is SA/D (Sail Area Displacement ratio)?

Maintenance

Are your sails worn out? You might find your next sail here: Sails for Sale

If you need to renew parts of your running rig and is not quite sure of the dimensions, you may find the estimates computed below useful.

This section shown boat owner's changes, improvements, etc. Here you might find inspiration for your boat.

Do you have changes/improvements you would like to share? Upload a photo and describe what to look for.

We are always looking for new photos. If you can contribute with photos for Venture 22 it would be a great help.

If you have any comments to the review, improvement suggestions, or the like, feel free to contact us . Criticism helps us to improve.

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• Sailboat Reviews

Venture 21 Used-boat Review

The vintage macgregor is a good example of a budget-friendly boat..

Maybe this has happened to you: You’re on a country road, driving to a wedding (or family vacation or business conference), and you pass a sailboat on a trailer with a “For Sale” sign. It’s not a big boat. It’s not a small boat. But it’s just about right for launching a small adventure with your young family, or maybe you’re looking to downsize. You can’t resist stopping for a closer look. Incredibly, the sign reads “$600,” including a nearly new trailer and an old 4-horsepower, two-stroke outboard that “runs like a top.” You write down the number and drive away, thinking: “Somebody is giving away a perfectly good boat.”

Chances are that “steal of a deal” is a Roger MacGregor-designed Venture 21, and if not, it’s probably one of the many copycats riding the trailer-sailer boom that MacGregor’s little boat ignited. The Catalina 22, the Santana 21, and the San Juan 21 are just some of the boats that followed closely in the wake of the Venture 21’s introduction.

The concept for the Venture 21 came out of MacGregor’s master’s thesis in the Stanford University MBA program. The first hull was introduced in 1965, but full-fledged production didn’t begin until 1967. Several thousand hulls later, the last MacGregor 21 (the boat was renamed in 1980) rolled off the line in 1986 at the MacGregor factory in Costa Mesa, Calif. Today, with some 36,000 sailboat hulls behind it, the company builds just one boat, the hybrid sailboat/powerboat MacGregor 26x.

Although MacGregor sold fewer Venture 21s than its successor—the Venture 22, which later became the pop-top Venture 22-2—the 21’s easy trailerability and affordable price helped it maintain its popularity throughout the 1970s. Capitalizing on the fiberglass revolution in boatbuilding, MacGregor’s business-school project sparked a pivotal marketing shift that helped bring recreational sailing to mainstream America.

While the trailer-sailer boom is far behind us, the Venture 21 and its many look-alikes have renewed relevance today. With their discretionary spending sharply cut, younger sailors are taking the Craigslist-route into sailing, scouring the classified ads for boats that don’t require dock space but still have room for a family sail. Meanwhile, many owners of 30-plus-footers are considering downsizing to a boat that doesn’t require mooring fees and a hefty maintenance bill each spring. For better or for worse, in the dim light of a recession, a back-to-basics giveaway boat on the roadside begins to look awfully enticing. For these and other reasons, PS decided to take a closer look at the Venture 21, which, in many ways, is the epitome of “the boat with a price I couldn’t refuse.”

The Venture 21 was designed to be affordable, easy to trailer and launch, and fun to sail, with enough room below for storing gear, napping, or even spending a night at anchor. It was principally aimed at new sailors, but it also appealed to those who wanted to step up from an open daysailer. Its size, sail area, and hull design were tailored for lakes and bays with fickle breezes of less than 15 knots.

Seaworthiness and performance were important considerations but pragmatism and aesthetic appeal were the driving force behind its design features.

Although the boat’s low headroom and Spartan interior would not qualify it as a weekender today, it was initially marketed as a “cruising” sailboat. A sleep-aboard sailboat that could be hauled around the country behind the family station wagon seemed perfectly in tune with the wanderlust of the 1960s.

While the Venture 21 is regarded as one of the first modern trailer-sailers, no single design element stands out as particularly revolutionary or unique. Instead, MacGregor incorporated proven features that would not only appeal to serious sailors, but also would remain consistent with the public perception of what a good boat should be and look like. In the yacht market, the Cruising Club of America boats were still the aesthetic model. Carl Alberg’s popular Ensign, launched by Pearson in 1962, is a good example of a small boat that clung to the CCA philosophy and aesthetic.

The Venture’s heritage is more closely aligned with two daysailers that were enjoying a surge of popularity on the East Coast in the early 1960s: the 17-foot Day Sailer, designed by George O’Day and Uffa Fox in 1958, and, to a lesser degree, the Phillip Rhodes-designed Rhodes 19, first offered by O’Day in 1959. Both were built by the nascent O’Day Group of Fall River, Mass. The similarities in the three boats are most apparent above the waterline. All have a relatively flat sheer line and spoon-like bow overhang (or spoonbow), elements that predate the modern yachting era.

While the Rhodes 19 still carries fairly deep V-sections well aft, making it a capable performer in the chop typical of its New England home waters, the Day Sailer flattens out, particularly at the stern, giving it fast, near-planing speeds off the wind. Fox and O’Day later refined this feature, earning Fox a reputation as the innovator of the planing dinghy. With a modest V-shape and a relatively fine bow, the Venture 21 lies somewhere between the two Rhodes 19 and the Day Sailer.

The Venture’s swing keel gives it 5 feet, 6 inches of draft—even more than its popular big brother, the Venture 25—and retracts to allow the boat to float in about 15 inches of water. (The brochure says 12 inches.)

Although the original design called for a fractional rig with a 22-foot mast, this was later changed to a masthead rig, giving it quite a bit of horsepower for its era. At the peak of its production in the late 1970s, the Venture 21 enjoyed popularity as a racing boat, with fleets springing up on the Gulf Coast, the Great Lakes, and the Northeast, as well as its home waters of Southern California. Although some owners have gone to the trouble of re-routing running rigging, fairing the keel, adding travelers and vangs, and replacing the pinned turnbuckles with threaded turnbuckles, we’d encourage someone inclined toward performance to look at a more modern hull with an active racing fleet.

One of the most notable features is the boat’s 7-foot cockpit, as big as that found in the much larger and heavier Catalina 22. However, unlike the Catalina 22, the San Juan 21, and the successively longer Ventures (V-22, V-23, V-25) that widened the cabintop to provide more interior space, the Venture 21 preserves enough sidedeck for crew to move forward . . . with care. Many V-21s, like the one we sailed, never had lifelines; others have had their lifelines removed. The standard single lifelines—low and poorly supported by widely spaced stanchions—offer a modicum of safety, but these are still less than ideal. In our view, lifelines are not a deal-breaker on a 21-foot daysailer, but if you have small children, a boat that is equipped with lifelines with a supporting pushpit and pulpit would be preferable.

The cockpit has a small lazarette, presumably to store fuel for the small bracket-mounted outboard, but this leads directly to the bilge, a bad idea that presents a potential fire risk. The original boats came equipped with top-grinding winches with short T-tracks for the jib. The boat we sailed had only a single fixed-point for the jib sheet. The end-of-boom mainsheet has a 4:1 purchase that spreads the load to each corner of the stern, a basic setup that limits trim options. Some owners modified the leads and added a mainsheet traveler, although this entails either raising the traveler over the tiller, or moving the sheet forward on the boom; both are compromise solutions.

A modest 18- by 18-inch fiberglass bow hatch allows ventilation down below, as well as a place for sails to be passed down. There is no anchor locker or chain pipe. The boat we sailed had an 8-inch diameter screw-on PVC deck plate that was apparently used as a chain pipe.

Overall, the deck has a functional layout, fine for its primary mission, which is to enjoy some time on the water with very little hassle.

Accommodations

The biggest drawback to the Venture 21’s emphasis on trailerability and a 1960s aesthetic is the lack of headroom below. By keeping the cabintop and topsides profile low, MacGregor produced a boat that, in our view, is better looking than the slab-sided models that followed. However, the end result is a very cramped interior. The VW-camper-inspired pop-top on the Venture 22-2, which came shortly after the Venture 21, offered a compromise that was adopted by a number of boats in this size range. Gradually, the intrinsic appeal of a low profile gave way to market demands. (MacGregor’s current and only model, the M26x, is a classic example of the wedding cake look that eschews traditional aesthetics for the sake of comfort below.)

With two quarter berths and a V-berth, the Venture 21 technically could sleep four, but this sort of arrangement probably would be brief and acrimonious. Although you could pack a lot of gear under the cockpit, actual locker storage is limited. Some ambitious owners have added sinks, small galleys, 12-volt systems, and port-a-potties below, but the boat’s cramped headroom restricts its suitability for more than a few days of cruising. For the 20-something adventurer with aspirations of camp-cruising on one of America’s many inland lakes, it will do just fine, but more than a couple of days aboard a boat this size will be a sure test of any marriage.

Construction

During the Venture 21’s 15-year production run, from 1965-1980, the materials and construction methods used for its deck, rig, structural components, and keel went through several changes. Construction of the hull itself, however, remained virtually unchanged. The hull was hand laid up with woven roven and mat. The layup schedule was a single unit of alternating mat and woven roven. Owners do report flexing in some spots, although we noted none on the boat we tested. The early boats are fairly resin rich, so hull thickness is not necessarily a reflection of strength.

The earliest Ventures had a stick-built interior, with bulkheads and bunks made of resin-coated cuts of plywood that were laminated in place. These earlier versions make it easier for owners to modify or rebuild an interior, and this is almost an inevitable project, given plywood’s propensity to rot and delaminate.

By the mid-1970s, MacGregor switched to a molded liner, which accelerated production and eliminated issues of rot, but added about 200 pounds to the total weight. Large sections of the boat are enclosed and filled with foam—a touted safety feature—but it is nonsense to consider the boat unsinkable, as some websites and blog posts suggest.

About 50 V-21s featured lead keels. The poured lead was anchored to a steel beam, and the entire construction sheathed in fiberglass. This process was not only expensive, but it also presented significant corrosion problems, as water eventually migrated into the fiberglass-encased keel.

Most models have solid iron keels; corrosion, however, is still a problem with these keels, but they can be removed, ground-down, faired, and sealed with an epoxy barrier coat to provide many more years of service. This is the biggest “problem” with the Venture 21, and any buyer should take a close look at the keel and the related components.

The original deck was plywood core, but this was later changed to balsa. In either case, rot is a potential problem (particularly in areas of the owner-installed deck hardware), but none of the 14 owners of Venture 21s who participated in our survey reported significant problems with deck rot.

The hull-to-deck joint was initially a bolted and adhesive-bonded shoebox joint, in which the lip of the deck flange fits over the hull just like a shoebox lid. This was later modified to an outward turning flange joint, with the hull lip turning outward to present a horizontal bonding surface for the deck. In both cases, the joint was bonded with a polyurethane adhesive sealant such as 3M 5200, bolted together, and then covered with an extruded aluminum and vinyl rubrail. Neither joint is as rugged as an inward-turning flange, but this is method is typical for a boat of this size.

Early versions of the Venture 21 were fractional rigs, but the majority were masthead rigs with overlapping jibs. An off-center backstay and upper and lower shrouds add support to the 22-foot mast. Early boats, like the 1969 model that we test sailed, did not have spreaders on the upper shrouds. In windy areas, where mast pumping is a noticeable problem, retrofitting spreaders—or looking for a more suitable boat—would be a good idea. The chainplates are through-bolted to the hull, eliminating the typically rot-prone attachment to plywood bulkheads found in some larger boats of this vintage. The original turnbuckles are the fixed-adjustment type that allow 1/8-inch adjustment intervals, making it hard to tune the rig at sea, but impossible to over-tighten, a common novice error.

The two biggest problems cited in our owners’ survey were the hand-crank keel winch and the keel-retaining bolt. Although the keel winches on later MacGregor models are braked mechanisms that will not spin freely under load, the one on the Venture 21 is a common ratchet-type trailer winch. If it is let go under load, the handle can whip around dangerously. Many owners have replaced this with a braked winch—a good idea, although these winches will require more maintenance. The keel-retaining bolt is a 3/8-inch diameter bolt that is slipped through a hole in the centerboard trunk and a corresponding hole in the keel. It is used to lock the keel in place when sailing in deep water, preventing the keel from flopping back into the hull should the boat capsize or surf down the face of a wave. The retaining bolts are commonly bent during a grounding, and any boat with a bent one should be inspected closely around the hull and keel trunk for other signs of damage.

Overall, the construction is light, but adequate for the boat’s designed purposes. If the deck isn’t too rotten, and the swing keel and keel box aren’t shot, most any other potential problem on the Venture 21 is easily remedied by someone who is handy and has the time.

Performance

During its heyday, the Venture 21 was promoted for it speed. MacGregor touted its position as the first of the “hot retracting keel boats” and the “fastest of its type,” with “planing speeds at over 16 miles per hour.” In this age of ultra-light monohulls and multihulls with eye-popping sail area (see PS, September 2009 and May 2010), this sort of hype seems quaint, but if you compare the Venture 21 to other boats of its era, it is clearly no slouch (See “Venture 21 in Context,” page 11). Its sail area/displacement ratio puts it ahead of several contenders, and its hull form—as mentioned—does give it an ability to hit double-digit speeds in the right hands.

The boat we test sailed was handicapped by ancient sails and an outboard that could not be fully tilted out of the water. Although the boat had a masthead rig, the headsail was a fractional working jib. A 140-percent genoa, found on many boats, would have added about 25 percent to the total sail area. To windward, the boat tacked smartly through 90 degrees, although we’d expect a boat with good sails to point higher. The boat was initially tender on the wind, but once the full effect of the 400-pound keel exerted its influence, the boat settled into a comfortable heel. Despite the deep bellies in her sails, the boat handled gusts surprisingly well, and by adjusting the swing keel’s depth, testers could easily achieve a balanced helm. Off the wind in 12 to 15 knots of breeze, we were able to sustain speeds of 7 knots under working sails alone with the keel almost fully retracted. While not wind-in-your hair sailing by today’s standards, it meets our definition of fun.

Conclusions

After spending some time aboard the Venture 21, we were reminded how much and how little has changed since the boat was introduced more than 40 years ago. Most comparable modern “weekenders” with big cockpits and modest cabins, like the Precision 21 or Catalina Capris 22, offer much more in terms of safety, systems (limited as they are), and modern conveniences. And entry-level daysailers like the thermo-molded Hunter 216 offer more in terms of performance options, such as a sprit for the asymmetrical sail and rigging conveniences like a hydraulic lifting keel. If true small-boat performance with a potential for one-design racing is what you’re after, then a boat like the J/22 presents a more sensible choice.

While overall construction quality has improved over the past 40 years, most daysailer hulls (the Hunter 216 and the balsa-cored J/22 excepted) are still solid fiberglass and laid up by hand, an economical and forgiving method. Many daysailers with cabins are actually much heavier than the lightly built V-21, but they also have much better finish quality.

The bottom line with the Venture 21 is the bottom line. If you hunt around long enough, you are likely to pick up a sailaway boat with a trailer and outboard for less than $3,000­—about the cost of a new trailer. The boat we sailed sold for far less, including the trailer and 4-horsepower Evinrude. If you are really patient, you can probably find a fixer-upper that someone will give to if you promise to drag it off their property.

Is this 40-year-old, mass-produced boat still a viable option for the entry-level sailor, or someone looking to downsize? No question about it. The Venture 21 is not a boat we’d recommend for someone with offshore aspirations or in places like San Francisco Bay where heavy air and a stiff chop would render it wet, slow, and uncomfortable. However, if you plan some coastal or lake adventures and are limited by a 2,000-pound tow capacity and a recession-era budget, then the Venture 21 definitely deserves a look.

There is one key caveat: Because it is easy to underestimate the amount of work required to revive barn-found boat, we would strongly urge looking for a Venture 21 that is in sailaway condition, rather than a project boat. Dealing with the iron keel alone can be a time-consuming project, and despite the boat’s interesting history, this adds little or no to resale value. On the good side, however, should you decide to embark on the restoration of a Venture 21, you will not be alone. Plenty have done it before, and given the boat’s irresistibly low price tag, more will surely follow in their wake.

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What kind of Trailer did your boat have. Mine (1972) is a 4″ welded C Channel, Is this a factory style trailer or somebody’s back yard built. It has the right v notches for the C/B etc.

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This site is dedicated to the Venture 2-22 sailboat by MacGregor.  The old site had gotten quite out of date and many of the links no longer existed, so I am moving it to iWeb on my Mac where I can keep up with it a little more frequently.  If you have any helpful hints or modifications that you would like to share let me know and I’ll include them on the site.  You can contact me by clicking on the email button at the bottom of this page.  Happy Sailing! 

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• Sailboat Guide

Venture 222

Venture 222 is a 22 ′ 0 ″ / 6.7 m monohull sailboat designed by Roger MacGregor and built by Macgregor Yacht Corp between 1971 and 1982.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

Besides certain hardware, hatch types, and small rig differences, the VENTURE 22, VENTURE 222, and MACGREGOR 22 are similar. Thanks to a number of Venture/Mac owners for providing updated information. Thanks also to Sam Tricky for providing a number of corrections.

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Macgregor 22

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Macgregor Venture 23

• Thread starter Al
• Start date Oct 25, 2004
• Macgregor Owner Forums
• Ask A Macgregor Owner

I am currently in the market for a trailerable sailboat and have researched a few different models, (O'day 22, Rhodes 22, Catalina 22, Seaward 22, Percision 21, WWP P-19, Hunter 23), and have recently come across the Macgregor Venture 23.I have a few question that I hope someone could help answer; 1. How many people can comfortably fit in the cockpit? 2. How many people can comfortably sleep in the cabin? 3. Can a couple and a small child spend a couple of nights on the boat comfortably? 4. Can four adults and two small children fit comfortably for an extended daysail?5. How difficult and approx. how long does it take to rig, launch and retrieve the boat?I know that's a lot to ask, but any information at this point would be greatly appreciated.Thank you,Al*o  

My 22 I have a Mac V 22, so my answers will be close.1. Comfortably = under sail = two adults and one child under 10. In a sunny lazy moorage with Bud lites in-hand = three adults or one adult and three kids.2. Again - Comfortably = 2 adults or 3 kidsbut in a pinch you can get four adults and one or two kids into the cabin - I don't know how comfortable they would be overnight - I wouldn't try that. The V berth is not that big and the double (table down) is really a good sized single.3. Yes a couple and a small child can spend a couple of nights on the boat. Comfort is a subjective term. Keep the carry-on luggage to a minimum and remember that the built in porta-potty in not vented to the outside, so lay off the beer and beans.4. No. I have had three adults and one child onboard and it was ok but cramped. Unless the kid wants to spend the afternoon on the fordeck and one of the adults wants to read down below. Again ... under sail it gets cramped - trying to move around, tacking, etc. but if your just having people onboard for drinks and canapes at the marina - go for it.5. My wife and I can rig (raise the mast) and launch in about an hour from the time we get to the marina. Then we need andother 20 minutes to set the boom and run the lines and do the 'round the boat check'. If your boat is in the water at a marina (as mine is all season) you can rig to run in about 20 minutes. We just pulled the boat out of the marina for the year (yesterday) and I had two male neighbours help me to drop the mast and tuck everything away for the raod trip to the winter storage - that took 2 hours from the time we got the boat from the dock, onto the trailer, boom off, mast down, lines secured and safety straps all around - ready to hit the road. If you keep you boat on the DRY and launch each time you go sailing - you will be able to accomplish all that alot faster.You have not mentioned price. If its a '70s or early venture expect to pay $3500 to 6000 depending on condition. (Check the condition of the trailer too - especially the wheels and bearings - very important). Plan on spending 50% in addition to the purchase price on fix-ups and add-ons during the first two years - you will.Wear a PFD and havefun.  

John Dawson

Dan, where are you when we need you? tell this fella about yer boat.  

Dan McGuire

My Venture Newport 23 Unfortunately it is not that easy to give a definitive answer to most of your questions. It depends on what you mean by confortable.1. I would say that you can fit four adults comfortably in the cockpit. In order to avoid reaching over each other, you need to let someone else set the jib sheets. We also occasionally set someone in the hatch. They can either face forward or aft.2. You can easily sleep four in the cabin. How comfortably may be questionable. The side bunks are somewhat narrow and the V- berth is a little short for a tall adult. We have rigged up plywood panels. We put those over the well in the cockpit and sleep on air mattresses. We would probably do that even if the inside bunks were very comfortable. We enjoy sleeping outside.3. Two adults and a small child can easily spend several nights in the boat.4. I would say that four adults and two children can be confortable for a day sail.5. You are not going to like this answer. It takes me and my wife about three hours to launch the boat and about the same to take it out of the water. I could probably knock it down to two hours by really hurrying. There is a lot to do. You have to get the mast up and down. It is a heavy mast. I use a boom and side supports to keep it from swaying. I can usually have the mast up and the shrouds adjusted in about a half hour.Physically putting the boat in and out of the water and installing the rudder and motor and the myriad of other details such as tying down the shrouds and halyards for trailering take time.I leave the Mac 23 in the water. If I took it in and out of the water more frequently, I could probably do it a lot faster. I have a American Fiberglass D-18 which I use for trailering. I can easily have it in and out of the water in less than thirty minutes.  

By the Way If you take a look at Feb 2004 Sailing Magazine. You will see a story "Under Sail in the Ozarks" which I wrote about our MAC 23 and Bull Shoals Lake. The story will not answer any of your questions, but I am proud of the it.  

You might think bigger If you have that many options for that many people, you might want to think about a 25. I picked up a Mac 25 in August, and I can rig it and launch it inside of an hour with my wife's help. A little longer if I am alone. We are a family of 4 and we have spent up to three nights on the boat, and we were comfortable as much as you can be on a floating room. Headroom is important as well. Well not for me as much as others. I have a pop top on my boat, but our friend had some issues even with the pop top. As for day sailing, I have had 4 adults in the cockpit, and 4 kids, either in the cabin or on the foredeck. There was plenty of room for all of us. It does give you the option of having your passengers help out with lines and drinks. I tend to keep the tiller to myself, but I do let others have it if there is something to do.In this case.... Size does matter.  

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Venture 21 vs Oday - Opinions Please

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Hello all, I am starting to look for a first(ish) boat for next season. I am 21 and sailed on two wooden schooners when I was younger. I also had two summers of sailing lessons on Precision 16's. About two months ago I bought a 12.5' Island Express sailing dinghy that needed some fiberglass work and paint. After a few times going out I thought to myself, "I need a bigger boat." So I have seen a few venture 21 and 19-22' Odays around in the $1000-2000 range that are "sailable" but maybe less than perfect cosmetically. I would be interested to hear opinions on these boats or something comparable. I would also like to know what they are capable of. I was hoping that once I have some more experience, I might be able to sail out to some islands a few miles off shore (I live near Boston, MA) or do a simple overnight with two people. Any input appreciated. Thanks in advance. ~Nathaniel  

No comparison, in my opinion. Forget the Venture. O'Day made a reasonably good coastal cruiser and would be my choice hands down. Ventures are poorly constructed and I am told subject to hull/deck joint leaks.  

Venture 21 vs. O'Day I agree with NOT considering the Venture/MacGregor 21 in comparison to the O'Day boat of comparable size. You better know how to refurb a sailboat if it is only costing $1K or $2K to purchase. If it seems too good to be true; it probably IS ! Do you anticipate trailering it or not? Better investigate the size and cost of a good trailer. Good luck  

Maybe hard to find in the Boston area, but a San Juan 21 would be worth looking for; see mine here: http://members.acadia.net/catamount/Quasar/ On the off chance you might possibly contemplate stepping up in size, consider a Paceship PY23 (particularly an earlier model made in Nova Scotia before they were bought up by AMF). Regards,  

Ditto the o'day over the venture. See if there are any Catalina 22's for sale around you as well. This is a CURRENT mfr. with a class group and probably more boats than any other made in this size. Should be able to find one CLOSE in price to an O'day of a similar age/condition.  

Thanks for all the advice. So I guess the Oday is a better bet. just as an example of what I was seeing between 1000-2000 check out this Mcgregor: http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/boa/193549181.html I can work with wood/metal/fiberglass pretty well. I have built a couple row boats and a cedar strip under glass canoe. I am just trying to strike a balance between "ready to go" and free empty shell where I can get out on the water for as cheap as possible. I found a ~1975 22' Oday that is basically a soild hull, standing rigging and decent sails for $1000 but it needs paint, interior and running rigging. The catalina looks ideal but I haven't seen any that cheap yet. Definitely will keep a look-out. My plan would be to keep the boat in the water all season and only trailer to and from my backyard each year. I am wordering if I can get away with renting a trailer and borrowing a truck. Anyways, if there are any more opinions out there I would be happy to hear them. Happy sailing, ~Nathaniel  

Renting a trailer for a sailboat is generally a difficult thing to do. A sailboat trailer is often very specific to the particular model of sailboat, as there are things like keel supports and keel stops that have to be on a sailboat trailer, that aren't on a regular boat trailer. Catalina 22 sailboats, the MacGregor 26, and other boats in that size range are generally within the towing capacity of most full-size SUVs, if you estimate the trailer to weigh about 800-1200 lbs. IIRC, Catalina just came out with two new designs for their small sailboats—the 22 and 25, and they are no longer water-ballasted models.  

the Venture is a cheap made boat where the Odays will have some quality in them. You will most likely see that on the inside where they will have wood and carpet and the venture will have fiberglass. If your looking for a cheaper and bigger boat MacGregor made a 25 foot with a steel swing keel called the MacGregor 25S. There was 2 versions, one had water ballast (bad) with a center board and one had a real swing keel (good) made of steel that weighed like 600 pounds or something. Before we bought our Merit we picked up one of these boats cheap and outfitted it with bigger working winches for the jib and some better tracks. The micky mouse winches that you removed work great as halyard winches if you decide to run halyards back to the cockpit. Get rid of the heavy 10 HP Honda it should come with and put a nice lite 5 HP 2 stroke on and a few decent sails and that boat will move and it's got some room below with a pop top coach roof. We sailed ours for 2 years and were very pleased on how it handled. I think it had a PHRF of 240. It prolly is gona cost more than 1k to 2k but it is another idea for a cheaper boat. The design of the boat was good but the construction of the boat is light.  

All you foks dissing the V-21, shame on ya. Have ya sailed one or are ya spouting secondhand knowledge? I have a '76 V-21 that I bought for a grand. Faded? yes, poor construction? no. I've had her in moderate (18-25) winds with no reef and all up heeling at 20 and planing on the wave tops. I've had her over so far on a wild beam reach that the inclinometer was stuck at 60* for 10 minutes with no issue and the only reason I let her up was 'cause I ran outta room. She's banged hard off the dock without injury (the dock fared worse) and with a 400# steel swing keel, she's fairly decent in a blow. Mind you, she needed some TLC but she's a damned good little boat that routinely runs away from even bigger boats when the wind is up. So, unless you've owned one, don't go by what ya heard on any particular boat.  

thank you charlycobra I started out with a 14 foot sunfish no lessons fast boat i then began to look for a pocket cruser i looked at all oday catalina tanzer lots and loved them all then you think money then i found a 20 foot cygnus i started to redo the boat then my brother saw me stressed out and dreaming to mutch and bought my wife and i a 21 foot venture for a wedding gift 1500 came with a trailer and 2. hp second time out i jived and ran the lines aft i can sail her my self the swing keel lets me get in to 3 feet of water to walk around and have fun iv never looked back what you want for a boat and how mutch coin you have at the time thats the boat your going to love  

Great Scott! 2006  

With my Venture 222, I would smoke an Oday 22 in the club. He never beat me, Poor guy just couldn't stand it. I also beat Stilleto 27 on occasion. corrected time  

I would like to dispel the myth about the poor quality of the Venture 21 sailboat. I have a 1966 MacGregor Venture 21 on a trailer for the last 15 years and have sailed it through most anything you get in on shore sailing. It takes chop, swell, heal, and high wind without issue. The quality of the boat is impecable. No blistering, no weakness, and superior strength in the bow keel region and cabin top. The boat is indistructable. I decided to teach myself how to sail on it and did so doing everything you can think of wrong. I've become a very confident sailor with this boat and love it more and more every time I sail it. I've worked on a 137 foot wooden tall ship the Bill of Rights out of Oxnard, and sailed the nicer mid sized Catalina 32 and 36's, Coronado 27's, Benetau 30's, and Hunter 36's. I love my boat so much that I'd rather sail my own boat than any of those. The only draw back is the time that it takes to set up the boat for sail. But with a trailer sailer you'll have to suffice that is what saves you the hundred dollars plus a month on slip fee's. I have done all the repairs on my boat myself and know the quality of the glass construction of my Venture intimately. It's a solid boat that will sail you where ever you want to go. You're on a small boat you'll get wet. If you don't want to get we don't go near the water. Have fun and make an educated choice but don't over look the Venture 21 of any year especially the older ones. They're tanks in construction and will take anything you can dish out! Sincerely Bluekimel  

just ran across this old message but it's a continuing question: how good are macgregor products? i own the 39th boat roger macgregor made, a venture 21. it's a light boat, 800 lbs with 400 lbs of lead ballast for a total of 1200 lbs. unlike some boats, it's entirely hand laid fiberglass. some of the heaver boats people brag about are made with chopper guns. yes, they are heavier but not stronger than a hand laid hull. in an effort to keep the price down, macgregor didn't use expensive hardware. owners often upgrade some of their hardware. the V21 sails a bit wet but very well, pointing higher than most. her light weight makes her easily handled. her deep swing keel makes her, although initially tender, stable and shoal draft at the same time. she's fast and a beautiful sailor. perhaps most of all, used ones can be had for low prices, good deals for a first boat.  

I started sailing on a Venture 22. It was a great boat to learn on. I had no structural issues. When we moved up we gave it away and as far as I know it's still sailing. It's a good boat for how and where it was built to sail and beyond that, it depends on how it was maintained. I have no idea about the quality of the later boats.  

I was looking for a San Juan 21 but they were all on the Sound (Puget) 4 hours away so picked up a local Venture 21 for $2000, a lot less than a comparable SJ 21. Interestingly it has the same handicap as an SJ 21 but when I tried to race a bunch I discovered my rigging didn't allow me to point 45 degrees to the wind, more like 50 or 55 degrees, unless were to rig her with a traveler to pull the boom to the center of the boat. I don't know if all of them are rigged like this but it was frustrating to say the least. It also did not have a downhaul, outhaul, or boom vang so flattening the main could not be done. Consequently it became unwieldy in a stiff breeze. The fore/aft balance of the sails also made it want to head upwind when healed over and drag the rudder through the water slowing it down. Other than the rigging problems I think it has an outstanding hull shape for racing. Some of the models had a heavier, longer keel which gave it a better righting moment but not mine. Also, the holes for the bolt to secure the swinging keel when down tended to leak into the cabin even with good rubber gaskets. Yeah, cheap boat, but then what can you expect for one or two grand?  

Started with a Venture 21, good boat. I sailed in some tough spring storms in Georgia and the boat handled it better than skipper and crew. I recommend it. I sailed it three years from a trailer on Lake Lanier, no problems. I have thought of acquiring one again as an inexpensive day sailor. MacGregors are frequently dissed by people who have not sailed them. This helps you as it holds the price down. Listen to the owners. I had to go through this when I acquired my Mac 70, the web sites with MacGregor owners speaking recommended them. What counts is a boat and building experience. To me the lines of the Venture are slimmer and faster than the O Day. My wife and I and child over nighted on it. No anchor just pulled up on the beach. Any boat that has you sailing will be fantastic, each has it pluses and negatives.  

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