canoe stern yacht

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Pros and cons for a double ender/Canoe Stern

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I have started the long process of buying my first sailboat. I'm trying to get it right on the first try. Yeah, I know it will not be perfect but I would like to get something that I don't dread looking at 6 months down the road. I recently found a "Top 10 Favorite Affordable Bluewater Sailboats" list. I'm sure the author of this list has his own opinions but one thing that I noticed from the list is that a lot of the boats shared a common design, they were Double Enders or Canoe Sterns. Could I get some opinions from some of you with experience concerning these designs versus a wider stern? If there has already been a thread like this that one can refer me to, please do so. A search didn't show anything. Thank-you in advance for any helpful advise you can give me.  

They look beautiful. But beyond that, I'm not sure there are really any advantages of a canoe stern/double-ender. Recall reading posts from Bob Perry asserting as much. A *huge* cone is the loss of massive amounts of space in the stern area below and a much tighter/smaller cockpit. Especially compared to modern designs that have a tendency to have a very huge stern beam and open areas of the cockpit to allow water to flow out if a wave hits ya. Canoe stern, well, I think you're relying on scuppers draining and/or downflooding the living spaces!  

Thanks for the post.. You are dead on speaking of Bob Perry. This same website that I found the 10 affordable Bluewater Sailboats list on also had an interview with Bob Perry. He designed a few but still seemed to wonder why someone would want a boat to sail in reverse. In my opinion he mainly said it was a marketing issue. Having a "dry" , safe and stable boat would be among my top priorities. Once again, Thank-You.  

Double enders have very small cockpits. They get pooped more often i.e. Waves over the back, the are old designs. There isnt much going for them as a cruiser.  

Tell that to Gary Burton .  

I am cruising with a double ender. Never been pooped so I'd love to see facts on that one Mark. Smaller cockpits, absolutely ... Just like you want in a sea going boat. Not nocking modern designs. Open transoms would drain fast, but the main reason for that design is to hold all the dock parties most of these boats do most of the time (Mark not included). Double enders are safe, secure and sensible sea boats. Best of all, they look good -- not like some motorboat wannabe ;-)  

My friend has a canoe stern, and he was extolling the virtues of that design to me at some point. I, of course, promptly forgot what they were because his boat's WAY out of my financial and experiential leagues so the info didn't stick into my admittedly "Need-to-know" based brain. I'll probably talk to him today while we're out on the water and I'll ask him again. May have had something to do with comfort with following seas? Barry  

bblument said: My friend has a canoe stern, and he was extolling the virtues of that design to me at some point. I, of course, promptly forgot what they were because his boat's WAY out of my financial and experiential leagues so the info didn't stick into my admittedly "Need-to-know" based brain. I'll probably talk to him today while we're out on the water and I'll ask him again. May have had something to do with comfort with following seas? Barry Click to expand...

A canoe stern is not just a canoe stern. Some of them do not have much volume aft, and might be pooped more easily than the ones with a wider behind. From reading "Yacht Design According to Perry", you'll learn that he tried giving the Valiant 40 a large a s s to ensure there was enough volume. So a Valiant probably wouldn't be pooped where a Westsail would? Other than that any boat can probably get pooped, I've certainly experienced a wave in the cockpit in confused seas in Norway.  

I apologize in advance that this is quite long and I worte it for another purpose but it is a detailed discussion of double enders which starts with a bit of history. When you look at really old double enders (Egyptian passenger barges, Viking ship, canoes, Skerry traders) you see some things in common. As a broad generality, for their era, these vessels all tended to be quite light and fast and intended to be propelled at pretty high speeds with comparatively little power. The traditional (up until the late 19th century) double ender actually had very fine ends and a burdensome mid-section. This shape was evolved for speed and seaworthiness in low powered (low stability), low volume vessels. This fine-ended double ender was a great shape for rough sea conditions. In theory, when a boat is running before breaking waves its own wake can disturb the waves astern and cause them to break. These fine-ended double enders threw smaller wakes and so were less likely to cause waves too break on them from astern. If a wave did break, the wave did not collide with the flat surface of a transom. (That is also the same reason that the transoms on traditional boats had as much rake as they did.) That all works well for light weight working craft with minimal sources of power. As these boats became more burdensome, they began to have a different set of problems. One of the key problems with the more heavily loaded fine ended double enders were that they did not have as much reserve buoyancy as transom sterned boats and waves might not break in their wake but they would get pooped (flooded from astern by overtaking wave). The Roman and medieval cargo ships, which are well known to researchers, were all double enders below and above the waterline but light displacement they most certainly were not - the cogs, shuyts and fluyts of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance were capacious, slow, cargo carriers. The reasons that these ships, and most European fishing boats until recently, be they Norwegian, Scottish, Danish, Dutch, Spanish, Maltese or Greek, are double enders are twofold; One is that this type of stern is easy, reliable, and nearly as cheap to build in wood. Another reason for the early use of double ends is that these working vessels had/have to lie alongside each other in close proximity in artificial harbors. The double ender is less likely to suffer damage from boats alongside. In such circumstances you find double enders. Elsewhere, like the Breton coast of France or the East Coast of England, where the sea conditions are just as bad, but there are natural harbors, estuaries, etc. you find transom sterns and counter sterns. The transom stern gives more buoyancy aft and is better suited to a high displacement hull, while being nearly equally cheap to build. The counter stern gives a drier after deck (important in sailing ships, which were conned from the poop) and more space for handling sails (and nets, on fishing boats) It is at that point in the 1800's that Colin Archer comes along in the search for a way to make boats that would not cause waves to break but that would also have sufficient reserve buoyancy in the ends. When you study the lines of a Colin Archer design they were really amazing. These were not delicate boats by any stretch of the imagination. They were truly beefy. They had to be. They were rescue boats and pilot boats that had to be able to stand station in the worst the North Seas had to offer and still make a rendezvous. They needed to be able to sail in light air, and they had to be able to lie against a stranded ship and take the pounding while rescuing people and property. They earned a reputation for their seaworthiness and ability to withstand the worst nature had to offer. Archer was a theorist and was looking for a way to design powerful boats with powerful rigs that would still remain balanced. Archer also had a tremendous ability to model the lines of these heavy boats so that they had a fairness of line and fineness of water line that is not readily apparent at first glance. They are deceptive boats in many ways. For all of their weight they were reasonably easily driven boats. They were capable of spreading really huge sail plans or being snugged down to a handkerchief By all descriptions that I have ever read these were not easy boats to sail. These were not the “sailed by a man and a boy” fine ended double ender epitomized by boats like the Tancock Whalers popularized in the fisheries off of Nova Scotia. They took large crews and a lot of brute strength to sail and to some extent they also survived on the iron wills of their crew. Then along comes Atkins, who takes the Colin Archer rescue boats and adapts them into yachts. Atkins like Archer is a master of the carefully modeled hull form and in many ways his “Ingrid” is the definitive example of a successful Colin Archer type yacht. Comparatively fine yet buoyant and burdensome, the 'Ingrid's are a masterful example of the art of yacht design with the emphasis on art. I keep hearing people refer to these boats as fast. They are fast for what they are, but in a relative sense, even in heavy going, they are not fast when compared to more modern designs. They also reputedly have very comfortable motions in a seaway. I suspect that that is more a product of their round bottom, and wine glass sections more than their double ends. The 'Ingrid's and 'Eric's did wonders for instilling the idea that double ended yachts represent some kind of ideal for distance cruising. This notion of the ideal was further embedded by the ubiquitous Hanna Tahiti and Gulfweed Ketches. By the late 1960’s double enders began to be viewed as relics of the past. Well-modeled double enders are not easy to mould in fiberglass since there was often some tumblehome in the stern making it hard to removed them from a single part mould. It probably would have stayed like that if the character boat craze had not gotten started in the early 1970’s. At the time the whole character boat thing was hard to fathom. After decades, suddenly bowsprits and molded in plank seams were getting popular. (If you actually owned a wooden boat you went to great lengths to conceal the seams and make the topsides look “just like fiberglass” but suddenly fiberglass boats were being built showing 'seams'.) Emerging in the early days of that period of looking backwards, the Westsail 32 came on the scene. The Westsail 32 is a fiberglass version of the Atkins ‘Eric’ altered to supply more room down below and be easier to mold in glass. The Westsail pretty quickly became an icon for the “serious Blue water cruising boat”. Derided as heavy, slow and wet, with many were bought by posers and wannabes, in reality the Westsails have proven to be enduring boats with an admirable cruising record. What the Westsails and boats like them did was to bring a focus on the growing gap between “cruiser-racers” and purpose built offshore boats. It was about that time that a young Bob Perry happened on the scene. I have always believed that Bob’s goal in designing the Valiant 40 was to design a boat that bridged this gap. Seen today the Valiant 40 seems very solid and conservative but in its day the Valiant 40 was revolutionary. If you look at the sections and underbody waterlines of the Valiant, they were remarkably far more similar to the early Sparkman and Stephens designed IOR boats (like the Tartan 41) than to anything that Colin Archer designed. Obviously a bit more burdensome, the Valiant 40 dared to be a moderate displacement (for the time) boat with a fin keel/ spade rudder intended for serious offshore cruising. I also suspect form articles that I have seen over the years that the trunk cabin and canoe stern were chosen not for some inherent obvious sailing or seakeeping advantage but as a clear statement that the Valiant 40 was and is intended as a serious offshore boat. If you look carefully at the stern of a Valiant 40 it in no ways really resembles the traditional canoe stern chosen for low wave making and low drag. This is a very powerful stern consistent with the Valiant's more modern lines and underbody. Of course for every brilliant design idea there are a bunch of bone headed copies. Having drawn a few double enders in my day, I really think that they take more skill than any other hull form to get right. Poorly done they are awkward in appearance and offer few of the advantages with all of the disadvantages of a double ender. Perry got it right, (to my eye, perhaps more so on the 37 foot Esprit), but a lot of designers never did. Designers like Garden, Benford, and Crealock have designed many a fine double ender, but I think Bob Perry was there at the right time with a design that really understood the problem and looked good doing it. So back to the original question, “What are the advantages and disadvantages of a double ender?” If the stern is not carefully modeled and matched to the other properties of the design, there are not any inherent advantages to a double ender; none at all. Properly designed in the fine-ended model, they offer a lower resistance at slow speeds, less wave making and a cleaner wake less likely to cause waves to break astern. Properly modeled in canoe stern model, they offer a lot of reserve buoyancy in the ends with a minimum stern overhang for reduced hobby horsing. They also offer less corners for lines to foul on which was far more important in the days of Gaff Rigs with booms that over hung the transom. The disadvantage is that a double enders tend top have quite a bit less room aft for their length than a transom stern boat. This means a more cramped cockpit (or aft cabin). In terms of sailing performance, with modern rigs and underbodies it is harder to get a canoe stern boat to work with modern underbodies which are designed to surf and sometimes plane. This means that they are not suitable to today’s lighter faster design principles. Its not an issue if your interest is in a heavier, more burdensome, long range cruiser but if your goal is coastal cruising or performance offshore cruising, where speed becomes more important than carrying a lot of ‘stuff’ in a short sailing length, then a canoe stern might not make sense. Canoe stern boats can be a bit more expensive to manufacture in glass as they often require special molds to handle the tumblehome in the stern. From a sailing standpoint, most double endere give away some initial stability which translates to reduced sail carrying capability and with that, the need to reduce sail sooner. Unless long and narrow, they lack the 'bearing' to achieve decent reaching and motoring speeds without the stern squatting and greatly increasing drag and fuel consumption. But also there are practical issues with a canoe stern. In a practical sense, the pinchjed ends make it harder to carry a dinghy in davits or install the type of solar arrays that are becoming increasingly popular. The loss of volume aft, makes it more difficult to carry the weight of a full sized dinghy when davits are installed. The reduction in useful deck area and interior volume result in boats which are small for their length, and are the equivillent of perhaps a 15-20% smaller boat in terms of useful space and sailing ability. At this point in time, I view the most recent crop of double enders mostly as a fashion statement. Most of us, sail the boats that we bought because we like them. We like them for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which may simply be that we like the way they look. I think that today’s double enders often carry with them a variety of features that attract a certain kind of sailor (or someone who wants to be that type of sailor). But in the end, to me, in prioitizing the criteria for choosing a long range cruising boat, the most serious consideration needs to be the practical and functional aspects of the boat in question. Aesthetics may play a role, but if the plan is to go offshore for long periods of time, that role needs be secondary. And so from that point of view, I would consider a double end a liability rather than an asset. Respectfully Jeff  

Jeff_H said: The reasons that these ships, and most European fishing boats until recently, be they Norwegian, Scottish, Danish, Dutch, Spanish, Maltese or Greek, are double enders are twofold; One is that this type of stern is easy, reliable, and nearly as cheap to build in wood. Click to expand...

Jeff_H said: Properly designed in the fine-ended model, they offer a lower resistance at slow speeds, less wave making and a cleaner wake less likely to cause waves to break astern. Click to expand...

RichH said: {in part} Pros • Heavy weight equates to MOMENTUM - good when bashing headlong into large waves. Cons • Due to large mass/weight, they do not accelerate well out a tack, especially in heavy seas - at least the ones with large powerful bow angles (less bow 'sharpness'). Click to expand...

smurphny said: The intuitive advantage of a double-ender or CCA era full keel boat is its diminished exposure of surface area to a following sea. Click to expand...

First off probably more circumnavigations have been made in "double enders" than any other hull form. The Valiant-40 followed by the Tayana-37 and 'their cousins' are still the all time leaders in this respect. Pros. • Because of the symmetrical hull form you can heel a canoe stern over onto its beam ends and have very little change in helm pressure - (good for less strain and wear & tear on the autohelm or wind vane steering.) • Most of the modern double enders (Perry, Harris et al designs) have quite adequate reserve buoyancy in the stern. • That pinched stern, mostly a stylistic form addition, cant be loaded with lots of extra weight. • Since most Double enders are cutter rigged you can meet and match wind and seastate conditions more easily than a sloop. • Since the masts on cutter rigged boats are located more closer to 40-50% LOA they can easily be sailed with 'just' a large genoa instead of reefing the main, and still 'point' reasonably well ... a good way to go tacking down wind, especially with the staysail on a clubfoot pulled out to the weather side. Cutters excel at beam reaching and broad reaching. Sloops are for 'pointing'; who the hell in their right mind intentionally goes 'pointing' in the tradewinds???? • Cockpits are quite small ... the small volume wont take on a lot of water weight and then plunge/squat and then struggle to recover from a boarding wave from astern. • Usually quite deep in the water hull forms ... they dont POUND, thus are more 'sea-kindly'. • VERY well behaved boats in F8 and above wind/wave conditions. • Immersion factor (how deep these boat sinks into the water when heavily loaded with stores, is surprisingly good) - 1200 to 1400 lb./inch of immersion. • Usually have immense stowage capacity already inbuilt. • Heavy weight equates to MOMENTUM - good when bashing headlong into large waves. Cons • Cant be easily docked stern-to nor with use of passerel type stern boarding ramps -- as is customarily done in the Med on seawalls, etc. •*Cockpits are small, ... makes for poor dockside entertainment centers. • Such boats can be extremely heavy weight; but, built to adequate scantlings and safety factors of a true 'blue water' design ... but were designed in an age when composite construction was not optimized, thus 'heavier' than 'modern'. • Usually quite deep in the water hull forms ... slow boats if sail plan not trimmed and tweaked to absolute perfection. • Cutter rigs sail plans are very difficult to optimize, tweak, etc.; the transition from sloop to cutter rig has a very high learning curve. Complexity of rig and sail plan is not 'easy' to learn, nor tweak/adjust for optimum performance output (virtually nothing is written on this subject, either) • Headsail/Staysail combo is a nightmare in varying wind strengths .... the interplay of headstay/forestay loading and the variable headstay/forestay wire stretch + sagging caused by different windstrengths ... is enough to make a grown man cry - requires more than backstay tension to 'tweak' for optimum performance output - complexity is incredible: backstay + running backstay (or intermediate shrouds) + independent forestay!!! tensions all need constant adjustment; with a sloop its usually 'just' simple backstay tension. • Below ~6-7 kts. a staysail flown under a topsail is detractive aerodynamically when on a close reach or above - IMO. • You reef 'back to front' on a cutter rig, because the combined CE is usually in the staysail - not really a con, unless you dont know this. • Usually low internal volume and narrow beam in comparison to more modern designs ... not good for 'entertaining' (but a real plus in a heavy seaway as grab-holds are ALWAYS close at hand.) • Folks who are terrorized of heeling probably should not own one. (My Ty37 'absolutely loves' 25-30° over .... but, Im a scow sailor where 25° of heel is 'the starting point') • Due to large mass/weight, they do not accelerate well out a tack, especially in heavy seas - at least the ones with large powerful bow angles (less bow 'sharpness'). • Massive heavy masts make them 'slow rollers' - generally are 'top heavy'. (Id love to put a Carbon stick on mine; but, I really like a slow rolling boat as I dont like power-puking into bilges looking for my loosened dental fillings ... ;-). ) These boats are generally 'sea-kindly'; no use being 'beat up' on a long passage and then have to rest-up for several day because of the 'beating and pounding you took' to get there 10% 'faster', especially when long distance cruising is mostly spent at anchor. Rx: That 'bustle' on a double ender is usually nothing but 'style' and that 'stern protrusion' really neither adds nor detracts from performance as its usually never IN the water (unless youre sailing stern-to all the time). If you realistically consider that most 'pinched stern' protuberances are just 'stylistic' then that extra 2 ft. should be deducted from your imaginary LOA when comparing to other designs ..... but what the hell, my double ended Perryboat is vastly 'prettier' and more 'eye pleasing' as well as 'more mannerly' than your average light-weight fat-assed sterned vomit comet. ;-) Just imagine a Valiant or Passport 40 built with a cored hull and a Carbon Fiber mast and built to modern lightweight optimized composite structure ..... would absolutely ROAR. OK, that pinched stern ... make it 'flippable' so you can open it and use it as a 'garage' for your dink.  

Just a quick thought on some double-ender cockpits. On your boat, you'll spend most of your time in the cockpit, especially in warm climates. A small cockpit will be uncomfortable and crowded when entertaining guests. Some of those double-enders like the Westsail 32 have tiny cockpits and no comfortable back rests when you're sitting in the cockpit. I'd opt for a big cockpit with comfortable seating (long enough to sleep on), a good-sized table for dining (4 to 6 people) and high backrests for sitting comfortably and then work on modifying it to drain quickly if flooded. One can always add more or enlarge existing drains or improve the companionway to prevent downflooding, but there is not much you can do with a small uncomfortable cockpit (besides change boats!). Just my 2 centavos..  

My biggest complaint about some double enders is their proclivity to hobby horse. I first noticed this when a friend purchased a 1930's Atkins Ingrid, a boat I'd always admired for her lovely lines. Not being a sailor at all, he asked me to teach him about the strings and things and some basic sailing stuff. As we got the sails up in Mamala Bay, we sheeted in and set off for Diamond Head. Sitting at the helm, I could not believe how uncomfortable the motion in the cockpit was. We eased the sheets and she settled down some, but there was still considerably more motion than I was used to on my transom boat (a 1909 Wm. Hand, gaff ketch). Over the years, in many anchorages throughout the would, I have noticed double enders hobby horsing at anchor. Some more than others, to be sure, but all, more than a wide stern, transom boat. Therefor, I would have to question the comfort, as a liveaboard boat, of some double enders versus a transom boat. Of course, some boats with transoms and long overhangs or that are fine in the stern underwater, will hobby horse as well, so it's not quite as cut and dry as double enders versus transom boats in the hobby horsing department. There are a lot of things to consider if one is seeking a good cruising boat that is also a good liveaboard. I know quite a few people with great looking sail boats, that sail well, but are generally less comfortable liveaboards than the boat would seem, just by looking a it.  

Except that as a cruiser you spend so little time at sea and soooo much time on the hook with a drink in hand and friends in the cockpit... BTW, I'm not knocking Westsails. I think they're nice boats, but the lack of support for your back in the cockpit would drive me nuts.  

Hi Mr. Bana, I know your not knocking Westies and good point about being on the hook with friends . But really I don't see the back support problem, we use those folding type chairs with the back rest .True there is no combing (I have seen some where they made them out of teak ) talk about cutting down the seating . I probably sound like a Westsail salesman , truth is these boats are only for a few . However they are a well kept secret as far as price . Look at the 32's the most expensive is only $59,500 . WESTSAIL - CRUISING BOATS FOR SALE  

Reference was made in the movie Perfect Storm about a boat that was found still floating after the crew had abandoned it during the storm. This was supposed to have happened in real life. The boat in question was a Westsail 32..  

I am fond of Double enders. I have to say my favourite is really about 3different boats... but all the same boat. The Morris Frances 26. Also known as the Victoria Frances and the Victoria 800.. depending cabin design. They came as a cramped flush deck, a boxy trunk cabin, and a full length Cabin. They were also one of the most seaworthy boats for 26 feet with the majority of her weight (51%) in the keel as ballest. They might get pooped easier due to their diminutive size, but they are hard to knock over and come up quickly if they do. A veteran of the Circumnavigation fleet  

Jeff, let me just say thank-you for the brief but detailed history overview of the stern designs. It was very informative and a well worth read. I do have many factors to consider in my search to get it right. Cosmetic appearance is not that high on the list. Safety, stability are the first two. Once again, thanks - sam  

Thanks for the post. Beautiful picture! Right now I'm still doing research on what I like Within a hundred miles of me there is a reasonably priced 1981 Hunter Cherubini. I have also looked at Hans Christian, Westsail 32 Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31. to name a few. The only ones that do not appeal to me are the ones with a pilot house, I prefer open cockpit. Once again, Thank-You!  

In the hollywood movie Perfect Storm the sailboat they depicted was (is) a Westsail 32 named Satori , that still sails today . IMO they missed a good scene, Satori still floating at the end . But what really happened was she washed up on a beach . The only Westsail that was lost was the one they cut length wise in half so they could film inside !  

Westsailforever said: The only Westsail that was lost was the one they cut length wise in half so they could film inside ! Click to expand...

Maybe it is just me.. but I consider Canoe Sterns as being different from Double Enders. IMHO a Double Ender needs to have an outboard rudder like a Westsail32, Ingrid, or a Frances 26.. and a Canoe stern is like a Herreshoff Rozinante with it's shorter keel length and under-slung rudder. I do not have much experience with Canoe sterns other than to note they are not really all that different in behavior than an older Full keeled CCA cruiser like my own Sea Sprite 23. They just have even more hull overhanging the water doing nothing. Double Enders in the Archer/Atkins vein tend to have a long full keel and a waterline length not much shorter than their deck length. these are generally very seaworthy boats and the stern tends to act much like a rear facing bow when in a following sea  

The intuitive advantage of a double-ender or CCA era full keel boat is its diminished exposure of surface area to a following sea. Having breaking waves slip under the stern with minimal offset to COG seems to be a big advantage. The most challenging and tedious (to the helmsman) attitude of a sailboat IMO is in a heavy following sea. I would like to see actual comparison data in a following sea between a modern, wide, fin-keeled boat and a traditional deep keeled, narrow transom, overhung design. I really like the way waves slip under the stern of my old 60s design boat but have no experience on modern sailboats in the same situations. I have had powerboats with wide transoms that really got knocked around uncomfortably in a following sea if that's any indicator.  

smurphny said: The intuitive advantage of a double-ender or CCA era full keel boat is its diminished exposure of surface area to a following sea. Having breaking waves slip under the stern with minimal offset to COG seems to be a big advantage. The most challenging and tedious (to the helmsman) attitude of a sailboat IMO is in a heavy following sea. I would like to see actual comparison data in a following sea between a modern, wide, fin-keeled boat and a traditional deep keeled, narrow transom, overhung design. I really like the way waves slip under the stern of my old 60s design boat but have no experience on modern sailboats in the same situations. I have had powerboats with wide transoms that really got knocked around uncomfortably in a following sea if that's any indicator. Click to expand...

Next to the female form, canoes, double enders are the most appealing shape I know of. I have a "collection" of canoes. A wide variety for a variety of uses. Amazing craft! Capable, efficient, comfortable... I am almost finished building a scale model of our Islander-28. One of Bob Perry's favorite designs. He has described it as a double ender. I consider it one, too. For me (and apparently, Bob) the double ender is defined at the waterline. Tundra Down's ends both come together at the waterline. Seems correct to me. That is where the boat is being a boat. The rest of the "platform" isn't about the hull's shape. By "hull" I am referring to the part of the boat that interacts directly with the water.  

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The comment re the islander 28 as being a double ender. MANY IOR boats of the 70's in reality are double enders. While they have a transom per say, the flat part is a foot or so above the WL, and if you look at JUST the WL, you will see a double ender with the upper part of the rudder being out of the water. Myself, while some double/canoe sterns are pretty, I prefer the look of the newer designs that are generally speaking, can be a bit faster due to planing ability down wind etc. BUT, ANY properly built boat can and should survive the end intended useage if the person is up to it. One thing not mentioned by the OP. ARE you sailing around the world? or are you sailing say puget sound/san juans up to the mid BC area east of Vancouver island, or some other what I would call reasonably protected area. A puget sound boat would be different than a world cruiser boat in how you want it designed. Here the BIG cockpit to entertain in, sit in etc would be better than a smaller cockpit boat. Even here, many like pilot house boats so they can sail in the drizzly winter months in the dry. I guess what I am saying, there is NOT a perfect boat per say. BUT, many perfect boats depending upon the how you use your boat. A westsail for weeknight racing, weekend cruising, needing to be somewhat speedy as you only have soo much time, does not work as well for me as one of the newer designed style boat. This is not to say a westsail is an improper boat for someone in a different useage. The boat design useage should match your end use! Marty  

blt2ski said: The comment re the islander 28 as being a double ender. MANY IOR boats of the 70's in reality are double enders. While they have a transom per say, the flat part is a foot or so above the WL, and if you look at JUST the WL, you will see a double ender with the upper part of the rudder being out of the water. Myself, while some double/canoe sterns are pretty, I prefer the look of the newer designs that are generally speaking, can be a bit faster due to planing ability down wind etc. BUT, ANY properly built boat can and should survive the end intended useage if the person is up to it. Marty Click to expand...

there are 2 nonsuchs down here....one I beleive is from canada  

basically pick your poison... I disagree and agree on many things said by those in the know here...in the end I always fall to the designers notes on said boat and then those with true experience on said boats versus whatever info you can get from "established sources"... the reality is all boats dont do everything perfect...and excell in certain circumstances and fall flat in others overall I would venture to guess that boat designs today perform better than older similar rivals...HOWEVER its not as extreme and fantastic and or great a difference as to render older designs bad or non offshore capable etc... anywhoo regarding waves, yes 10, 20, 30 foot waves can slip under you regardless of stern shape...its the ones that break that show you the difference between stern types and which shape is better, not to mention the speed they are travelling at and what your speed is. just read a couple of moitessiers book(havent we all) on how to handle big waves from behind...his notes on this type of sailing are golden standards to this day. anywhoo last tidbit I had an old wooden h28 with a nice flat transom inwards like many old designs...with an outboard hung rudder of course and a really nice long full keel I could most definetely fill the incredible lift and steadiness this type of transom offers in following seas...because its flat it offered a steady motion, slow lift...and not much wash, something which canoe sterns, some cca boats and some double enders dont have. while wet to windward, on a beam or broad reach and even ddw it was a dream to sail..."on rails"  

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Irkutsk is the most popular stop for Trans – Siberian travelers. In this fascinating city, which was once known as the “Paris of Siberia,” you will find people relatively more friendly and relaxed than those in Moscow and other major cities on the west. The city is relatively small, laid back, and most of the points of interest are easily walkable. Along many of the streets, you can see historical cozy – looking log cabins with decorated windows with detailed woodwork, which is typical Siberian architecture. Irkutsk is conveniently located about an hour away (by car or bus) from the southern shores of Lake Baikal – the oldest and deepest freshwater lake on our planet.

How We Got There

Even though a journey on the Trans-Siberian Express # 002 is the longest train ride in the world but for us, it’s only 48 hours from Yekaterinburg to Irkutsk. 

Our Itinerary By Trans Siberian

By Air An Alternet Option

There are a couple of major airlines flying to Irkutsk International Airport (IKT) such as S7, Aeroflot, China Southern, Korean Air, Uzbekistan Airways, and more. Check out Priceline.com or CheapOair.com for a bargain.

The airport is about 5 miles (7 km) from the Irkutsk Angara hotel and about 40 miles (64 km) from Listavyanka or Lake Baikal. There are many taxies available at the airport; all you need to do is negotiate the price. You can also use Uber or Yandex taxi if you have their app and access to wifi.

Top Things To Do In Irkutsk

The traditional siberian wooden homes.

You can spend an entire afternoon walking the streets of Irkutsk and not come across two homes that are alike. This city is comprised almost entirely of old, traditional Siberian houses, and each one is entirely unique. They often have bright, carved shutters that contrast sharply with the dark wooden exterior. Something unique.

Visit The Bogoyavlensky Cathedral

The Bogoyavlensky Cathedral the main cathedral of the Irkutsk diocese is The Bogoyavlensky Cathedral is the main cathedral of the Irkutsk, it is located right next to the Angara River. Initially built in 1693, our of wood, but a devastating fire destroyed it. In the early 18th century, instead of a small wooden church that existed, they built a great stone Orthodox Cathedral.

The beautiful exterior of the Bogoyavlensky Cathedral is impressive, it has red brick exterior walls decorated with old Russian designs with many extravagant elements.

Guided Tour In Irkutsk

There are guided tours available in Irkutsk, they usually combine sightseeing, lunch and a few sightseeing stops on the way.  Get Your Guide  is the one I recommend.

Visit The Spasskaya Church

This beautiful church is the oldest stone building in Irkutsk, not far from Bogoyavlensky Cathedral and the famous Angara River. It was built in 1710 and the stone church because of the fortress wall that defended Irkutsk from the raids.

Check Out Huge Kirov Square

The The Kirov Squire is located just in front of our hotel (Angara Hotel) we were staying within the boundaries of Lelin, Zhelyabov and Sukhe-Batora streets. It is the center of many major events, such as the Victory Day parade and New Year celebrations. Nice place to visit while you are in Irkutsk.

The Monument to the founders of Irkutsk

It was unveiled on the 350 anniversary of Irkutsk in 2011. The monument is located on the banks of the River Angara, near the Cathedral of the Epiphany. The bronze monument represents a generalized character of Cossack – a pioneer of Siberia.

Tsar Alexander the third

The statue of Alexander III located right on the waterfront promenade by the Angara River a beautiful place to visit on your way to Listvayanka.

Our Lady of Kazan

Kazan Church (Barrikad St., 34) could absolutely be the highlight of your time in Irkutsk. The people refer to it as the ‘Red Church’, noting the beautiful color of its walls. The foundation for this stone building was laid in 1835, and the construction took 57 years. The church, opened on Easter 1892, is magnificent.

130 Quarter (Kvartal)

Must see the place in Irkutsk one of the famous tourist destinations. The This is a must-see the place in Irkutsk, one of the famous tourist destinations. The historical quarter is located in the center of Irkutsk, at the intersection of Kozhov, Sedovand 3rd Lyulya streets. Easily accessible by public transportation such as a bus. This historical place got Museums, souvenir shops, cafes, restaurants, hotels and a mall all coexist in peach behind old walls. Old historical buildings and lovely sculptures surround those buildings are beautiful, a great please for spending an evening there.

Check Out Znamensky Monastery

Znamensky Monastery is one of the most famous places of worship in Irkutsk. It was like ay other old Russian church but was interesting to see. Nice stopover if you are interested to see a typical monastery and nice paintings.

Beautiful Prince Vladimir Temple

This monastery was founded in 1888 in honor of the 900th. Anniversary of the Christianization of Russia. Like any other place of worship in Irkutsk was built with private funds. A great place to visit based on your priority.

Visit Taltsy Museum

The open-air museum displays the lifestyle and typical architecture, mostly wooden houses of Siberia. Taltsy Museum is located on the bank of Angora river, about 29 miles (47 km) south of Irkutsk. Since this is on the way to Listvyanka. Therefore, many tourists add this spot as part of their Listvyanka and Lake Baikal trip. We took a guided tour and pact with a lot of activities, including a stop to Taltsy, Port Baikal, boat ride in Lake Baikal, Shaman Stone, Listvyanka, cable car to Chesky Stone Hill Lookout, Listvyanka market and a visit to St. Nicholas church.

Day Trip to Listvyanka & Port Baikal

Listvyanka is an urban locality in Irkutsk District of Irkutsk Oblast, Russia, located 70 kilometers south of Irkutsk, near the point where the Angara River meets Lake Baikal. The village of wooden houses beside Lake Baikal is the most popular tourist destination on the lake. The village is easily accessible by bus, minivans, and even ferries from Irkutsk city.

It is doable as a day trip from Irkutsk, or many stay there a day or two. There are so many things to do that will definitely not disappoint you. We enjoyed a speed boat ride in the lake later, visited the shaman stone in the middle of the Angara River, where it meets Baikal lake, toured a village market, and had some delicious smoked Amul fish a fresh catch right out of the lake. We took a ferry to Port Baikal and walked for miles following the famous Circum-Baikal train track. In the afternoon, At the end of our day trip, we took a cable car to the Chesky Stone Hilltop and watched one of the magnificent sunsets of all time from the lookout. The memories I gathered is priceless.

Ride The Circum-Baikal Train

One of the best picturesque day trips from Irkutsk is by taking the historic Circum-Baikal railway that runs from Slyudyanka to Port Baikal. The rail route is about 52 miles (84 km), and it takes about 5 hours by Circum-Baikal railway.

To get to Slyudyanka the starting point of the historic Circus-Baikal train trip you may need to get 2+ hours of a taxi or train journey from Irkutsk that’s another 68 miles (110 km) to cover.

Once you are at the end of your Circus-Baikal train trip at Port Baikal, you need to get the last ferry to get to Listvyanka, then an option to stay overnight at the beautiful lake side town or go back to Irkutsk.

Try Local Food in Irkutsk

Clermont restaurant, polskikh povstancev st., 1, irkutsk.

Just a few minutes’ walk from Angora Hotel. We, in fact, liked the food we ordered. All we wanted to eat was salad, fish, and pelmeni. So we got Omul Fish soup, smoked Omul, and of course, Pelmeni and the traditional Russian salad was delicious.

Kochevnik, Gorkogo St., 19, Irkutsk

This is an excellent restaurant serving mainly delicious Mongolian food. Only about 7 minutes’ walk from the Angara hotel. It is one of the most loved restaurants by locals and tourists alike. Most of the food is delicious, and I would definitely recommend this restaurant. You will not be disappointed.

Where Did I Stay in Irkutsk

Angara Hotel, Sukhe-Bator Street 7, Irkutsk

This hotel is at Kirov square, this downtown hotel is a 9-minute walk from a tram stop, a 6-minute walk from the landmark Cathedral of the Epiphany and 3.1 km from regional art at the V.P.Sukachev manor museum. The famous Angara river is just a few blocks away.

Apartament on Marata 31, 31 ulitsa Marata, Irkutsk

If you are looking for a more extended stay or just to experience your trip from a different perspective, then I would suggest booking an apartment. The apartment on Marata 31 is a great option, with 1 bedroom, an equipped kitchen, with microwave, fridge, washing machine, and a stove. You can even rent a bicycle from them.

My Opinion and Last Word

Have you been to irkutsk, russia any cool tips to share.

I loved being in Irkutsk Oblast and want to go back again. I hope my story has motivated you to  plan your visit . 

Please leave a comment below! I would love to hear from you to improve my knowledge. 

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Hasan Mahmud

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on the Trans-Siberian Railroad

Irkutsk, city, southern Siberian Russia, capital of Irkutsk Oblast, at the confluence of the Irkut and Angara rivers. It is a major industrial and commercial center served by the Trans-Siberian Railroad. Manufactures include aircraft, motor vehicles, textiles, building materials, mining equipment, and leather goods. A large hydroelectric facility is here. A regional cultural center, the city has history and art museums, theaters, a symphony orchestra, and several institutions of higher learning, including a university.

Irkutsk was founded in 1652 as a Cossack outpost and developed as a fur- and gold-trading center on the route to Mongolia and China; it was also used by the Russian government as a place of exile. Industrialization accelerated after the coming of the Trans-Siberian Railroad in 1898. Population (1995) 668,449.

Text from Microsoft Encarta

street paving

what is playing this season

statue of Lenin

memorial to those fallen in the Great Patriotic war (WW II)

central city

along Lake Baikal

Photos of Lake Baikal

Russian Orthodox church

another church

monument to Bellingshausen

Bellingshausen, Fabian Gottlieb von (1778-1852), Russian explorer and naval officer, born on the island of Saaremaa, Estonia. Bellingshausen entered the imperial Russian navy in 1797, and received his training at the port of Kronshtadt. In 1809, as a commissioned naval officer, he participated in the Russian action against Sweden. Ten years later he was given command of two ships, Vostok and Mirny, and ordered to explore Antarctica. In 1819 he penetrated 70° South latitude into the Antarctic sea now bearing his name. In the sea he discovered and named Peter I and Alexander I islands. On his return trip to Russia in 1821, Bellingshausen explored the Society Islands, one of which now bears his name. During the Russian war with Turkey (1828-29), he distinguished himself at Varna (now in Bulgaria) and was promoted to vice-admiral. He was later named admiral and was appointed governor of Kronshtadt.

telephone booth

central market

selling onions

the free market

clothing from the kiosk

Classic wood houses

water hydrant in the street (no water within the residences)

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